CTI CD comparisons

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by ShowsOn, Aug 18, 2011.

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  1. ShowsOn

    ShowsOn Forum Resident Thread Starter

    I previously uploaded some comparisons of Blue Note CDs here.

    Here are some comparisons of the same sections of songs taken from different CTI CDs:

    Airto - The Best of Epic / Legacy CD V CTI The Cool Revolution Masterworks Compilation:
    Tombo in 7/4:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?844h1ll4yqc80yp

    George Benson - Body Talk Epic / Legacy CD V CTI Masterworks CD:
    Body Talk:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?4ht49rt18th5t41

    Jim Hall - Concerto Epic / Legacy CD V The Cool Revolution Masterworks Compilation:
    Concierto de Aranjuez
    http://www.mediafire.com/?cg2arj2dzhsnz4j

    George Benson - Body Talk Epic / Legacy CD V CTI Masterworks CD
    Dance:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?jcezxpdrt5s9baz

    Milt Jackson - Sunflower Epic / Legacy CD V CTI Masterworks CD
    For Someone I Love:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?cwavbnfesfdmqw2

    Johnny Hammond - Breakout Epic / Legacy CD V The Cool Revolution Masterworks Compilation:
    It's Too Late:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?6kd2ty6avric0d2

    Freddie Hubbard - The Best of Epic / Legacy CD V Red Clay Epic / Legacy V Red Clay CTI Masterworks CD:
    Red Clay:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?ppi53729oncc46g

    Stanley Turrentine - Salt Song Epic / Legacy CD V The Cool Revolution CTI Masterworks Compilation.
    Salt Song:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?ey4s39w1x31qr9m

    George Benson - Beyond the Blue Horizon Epic / Legacy CD V CTI Masterworks CD:
    So What
    http://www.mediafire.com/?cgscpb85buz577r

    Stanley Turrentine - The Best of Epic / Legacy CD V The Cool Revolution CTI Masterworks compilation:
    Speedball:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?cvwrc5dc7qcrbpw

    Stanley Turrentine - Sugar Epic / Legacy CD V The Cool Revolution CTI Masterworks CD:
    Sugar:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?3vodjanvuhp9mba

    Freddie Hubbard - First Light Epic / Legacy CD V CTI Masterworks CD:
    First Light:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?skoc4zyxcs5n975
     
  2. liv3evil

    liv3evil Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate NY USA
    I own all of the new Masterworks CD's, some of the Epic/Legacy ones, and most of the CTI catalog on vinyl, and I have to say that - at least in the case of "Sunflower" and specifically the track 'People Make the World Go Round' - that my ears prefer the slightly-louder, much brighter Epic/Legacy CD version. Especially the drums in the intro; they sound kind of dull and lifeless on the Masterworks release (though probably more like the vinyl).
     
  3. liv3evil

    liv3evil Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate NY USA
    Also, thanks for taking the time to compile samples! :thumbsup:
     
  4. ShowsOn

    ShowsOn Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Yeah Sunflower is a great example of the Epic / Legacy and Masterworks CDs being very different. The Epic / Legacy has the channels dramatically folded in to almost mono. Apparently for the Masterworks versions, Mark Wilder has been trying to replicate the sound of the original vinyl, except he is using the master tapes, whereas previous CDs have been transferred from LP cutting masters.

    Frankly I can't decide which version of Sunflower I prefer because I have had the Legacy version for about 5 years, so I am used to the album sounding that way, but it is nice to have the Masterworks version with its much wider stereo spread and less compressed sound.

    What I do know is that that Herbie Hancock acoustic piano solo in the middle of the song (which I am pretty sure is an overdub) is one of the funkiest things he ever put on tape.
     
    yesstiles likes this.
  5. liv3evil

    liv3evil Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate NY USA
    Agreed! Somewhat related, I think the version (of 'People Make the World Go Round') on Hubbard's "Polar AC" is either a different take, or different musicians altogether?

    I am probably used to the sound (brightness) of the Epic/Legacy, too. If I have time to hook my vinyl rig up to my CPU, I can spin my orig. "Sunflower" LP and compare against the Wilder/Masterworks version. I'd wager they are very similar-sounding, if not relatively identical.
     
  6. ShowsOn

    ShowsOn Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Another huge difference is the Masterworks and Epic / Legacy versions of Freddie Hubbard's Red Clay.

    Again, the Masterworks version is wider stereo, whereas the Legacy version is folded in. The Masterworks seems to have much better bass too, so it is possible that it was mastered from a completely different tape.

    Apparently RVG and Creed Taylor preferred the channels folded in a bit, because they felt it made the music sound better when played over the radio.
     
  7. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Looking over Doug Payne's site it seems Hubbard's version is a different, earlier recording than Milt Jackson's version, and in between there was also a live version included on one of those dodgy "Summer Jazz at the Hollywood Bowl" albums. Hubbard's version has Lenny White on drums while Jackson had Billy Cobham.
     
  8. liv3evil

    liv3evil Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate NY USA
    I know this isn't a CTI trivia thread, but it's funny that Hubbard plays on Jackson's version, too! Heh.
     
  9. Leroy Bad

    Leroy Bad Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Ysidro, CA
  10. ShowsOn

    ShowsOn Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Would you be willing to upload your samples at WAV or FLAC or some other lossless format?

    That way I can add them to my comparisons without re-encoding them to lossy twice (which reduces the quality).

    It would be great if you could tell me the time from each track too.
     
  11. ShowsOn

    ShowsOn Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Here's a comparison of the above RVG version with the Masterworks version mastered by Mark Wilder:
    https://rapidshare.com/files/2905730194/tombocomp.flac

    This isn't a completely fair comparison because the above file was first encoded to MP3 whereas the second sample from the Masterworks version of Fingers is straight from the CD!

    But we can make the following conclusions. As RVG did with most of his Blue Note reissues, he has used compression on the right channel and boosted the treble (the pinging sound of the cymbal).

    I much prefer the Masterworks version, although the RVG version seems to be more impressive because it is louder. But once you match the levels using WaveGain, the masterworks version is clearly more dynamic without the irritating treble boost.
     
  12. Leroy Bad

    Leroy Bad Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Ysidro, CA
    From what start time are you using for Jim Hall Concierto sample?
     
  13. Leroy Bad

    Leroy Bad Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Ysidro, CA
    Ok these are in a lossless format. The mp3 links above have been removed.

    Fingers - Tombo 7/4 - Airto
    http://www.mediafire.com/?ebp5o2dmbsnr81w

    Surgar - Stanley Turrentine
    http://www.mediafire.com/?3ix48d25fe1uey4

    Stone Flower - Brazil - Atonion Carlos Jobim
    http://www.mediafire.com/?5awfad44nb14t5h

    Gilberto with Turrentine - Ponteio
    http://www.mediafire.com/?0cm35czlaua9bz5

    Prelude - Also Sprach Zarathustra - Eumir Deodato (starts 1:30 in)
    http://www.mediafire.com/?hm53qqw383uq171

    Red Clay - Freddie Hubbard
    http://www.mediafire.com/?hm63wz0v1w1enob

    Sunflower - For Someone I Love - Milt Jackson
    http://www.mediafire.com/?1pw1zcrk5r1n3yi

    Spanish Blue - So What? - Ron Carter
    http://www.mediafire.com/?zkrgct54gyjuqso

    All Blues - Ron Carter
    http://www.mediafire.com/?c9i38qgwaa42xxf

    Maybe its just preference, but despite the RVG mastering to be louder, I still find them more detailed and fuller.
     
  14. Leroy Bad

    Leroy Bad Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Ysidro, CA
  15. ShowsOn

    ShowsOn Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Thank you very much for uploading these lossless files. I'll start uploading comparisons where I have alternate versions. Here's the first one:

    Stanley Turrentine - Sugar:
    http://www.mediafire.com/?w2drpk1khrp3404

    Here are the versions in order:
    1) Best of (1990 Legacy compilation), note that this is radically different, the sax is on the right rather than the left channel!
    2) Sugar (Epic / Legacy remastered version)
    3) CTI / RVG Remaster
    4) CTI / Masterworks (Mark Wilder) remaster

    The Masterworks and Legacy versions are quite similar. The Best Of version must be from a different mix. It has a lot of reverb added. The RVG version is slightly compressed and treble boosted.
     
  16. Leroy Bad

    Leroy Bad Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Ysidro, CA
    Does anyone have any opinions on the Masterworks releases of Giant Box and Blue Moses vs the 2006 Japanese editions?
     
  17. Leroy Bad

    Leroy Bad Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Ysidro, CA
    Hey guys, has anyone been able to compare the Epic/Legacy issue of In The Beginning with the Masterworks version? I the thought the Epic/Legacy issue was a bid dull sounding and I need an improvement.
     
  18. liv3evil

    liv3evil Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate NY USA
    I have the Legacy issue as well as the Masterworks, but my Legacy [ZK-65127] is in storage (as are most of my 'dupes').

    I can say this, however (and realize it's a 'general' statement): the Masterworks sound more like the original vinyl pressings (most of which I own), and virtually all of them sound 'duller' (def. not as bright or treated fairly liberally with EQ) as the Epic/Legacy CD's from the '90s. "Sunflower" is a great example of this.

    To surmise, if you thought the Legacy issue was dull-sounding, I doubt you'll be aurally excited (!) by the Masterworks reissue.

    My two cents! \../
     
  19. Leroy Bad

    Leroy Bad Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Ysidro, CA
    Actually I picked up the new In the Beginning a few days ago....it sounds a lot better than the legacy version! I found it a lot less veiled and the bass is heavier...:righton: I also really liked how Straight Life came out. :righton::righton:

    Now I don't think the new Salt Song is better than the Legacy version however. The mix of the electric piano and drums are quieter and the bass is not as punchy. :thumbsdn:
     
  20. liv3evil

    liv3evil Forum Resident

    Location:
    Upstate NY USA
    Glad to hear it; I own both and have yet to spin 'em. I def. agree in terms of "Salt Song"; I prefer the Legacy to the Masterworks issue (same as "Sunflower").
     
  21. Casagrande

    Casagrande Forum Resident

    Ordered that with First Light. Any chance of a Sky Dive cd reissue in this series?
     
    yesstiles likes this.
  22. Leroy Bad

    Leroy Bad Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Ysidro, CA
    Both Sky Dive and Keep Your Soul Together would be worth every penny.

    This is the longest period for Sony not to announce upcoming titles...I hope this series isn't over. Theres still some things I'd really like to see.

    Crying Song - Hubert Laws
    Studio Trieste - Jim Hall
    Turrentine/Hubbard In Concert
    Spanish Blue - Ron Carter
    Blues Farm - Ron Carter
    Bad Benson - George Benson

    An since they're putting out KUDU releases too..
    Anything Goes - Ron Carter

    on SALVATION
    Virgin Land - by Airto -....This wasn't produced by Creed Taylor but Salvation was another sister of CTI like KUDU and the album is amazing!
    New York Jazz Quartet - Ron Carter/Roland Hanna

    Also A&M/CTI
    Calling Out Loud - Nat Adderley!!!! :goodie:
     
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  23. PaulB

    PaulB Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto
  24. Leroy Bad

    Leroy Bad Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Ysidro, CA
    Looks like on 12/11 King Records will be reissuing a new series, CTI Supreme Collection containing 40 titles on Blu-Spec CD. The better part of it is that they will be of a budget price of about 950 yen, or about 9.58 usd according to cdjapan. One that catches my attention is Joe Farrell's Penny Arcade. To my knowledge this is the very first time Japan has had its own pressing.
    http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/search3.html?r=any&step=20&q=CTI+SUPREME+COLLECTION&cur=20
     
  25. SteelyTom

    SteelyTom Forum Resident

    Location:
    Boston, Mass.
    Thanks for the heads-up! Is anyone familiar with the Astrud Gilberto/ Stanley Turrentine title?
     
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