Attention Barry Diament and other speaker isolation gurus!

Hi JG,

Two things I see wrong with that:
1. The ball is not free enough to move as it would be if it was in a bowl with a larger diameter than the ball.
2. The extra metal on the side will ring, causing added hardening and brightening of the sound. (That's why I suggest using something like BluTak when embedding something like a drawer pull in a wooden -or other- base.)

A true ball-in-a-bowl will be free to roll around and you'd see a supported component or speaker move from side to side (or front to back or rotate) if you pushed on the component and released it.

The freedom of motion and the ease with which the ball can be put into motion are directly related to how well it will act as an isolator.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi Barry. I see you are attempting to protect your "Hip Joints" name with a copyright symbol (©).

You need to use a trademark symbol: ™ -- e.g. Hip Joints™

If/when you register that trademark (which is optional; it gives you more legal leverage if you ever need to enforce it), you use ®.

The copyright symbol is not giving you any more trademark protection than using nothing at all!

Cheers.

 

Thanks Barry - next project coming up.

 

I'm getting there, now I understand! Thanks!

JG

 

I notice you have the single bearing at the front, any particular reason for this?

 

Hi JG,

My speakers have a built-in (slight) backward tilt, so I use two toward the back.

With regular box speakers, you can use two in front and one in the rear if you'd prefer.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi PlusMinus,

Actually, the design is copyrighted.
A trademark protects the name only, not the design of the device.
Or am I missing something?

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Aren't you both correct? Barry's suggestions are meant to keep ambient vibrations from the floor from affecting components/speakers. You seem to be addressing the issue of preventing the speaker from causing vibrations TO the floor.

 

There are machine/lathe products that use a cup for something or other that I think would be suitable for the balls. I've seen them in the Harbor Freight catalog but since I didn't need them I never read what type of function they serve in machining so I can't recall the proper name.

 

Hi Larry,

I have been asked by Paul K not to debate this matter in this thread. His exact words: ..."let's not debate that matter in this particular thread please..."

Soooo.....I will do as asked...my generation was known for always following the rules!

HG

 

And you are a gentleman too!

 

Don't you patent a design? Copyrights don't protect designs, I don't think. The symbol is typically used in a legal notice, e.g. "© 2008 Barry Diament", not as a "bug" next to a name.

I'm not a lawyer, but I work for a big software company and am working with my employer's intellectual property a lot (particularly the use of various marks in print), and so I've been through the mill with the lawyers quite a lot on trademarks, copyrights, patents, design patents, and so on.

I'm no expert, so if you or someone knows better, I happily defer. But if you haven't thought too much about how you are using that mark, you might talk to a IP lawyer or someone like that.

 

Hi PlusMinus,

Years ago, when I came up with the design, I did indeed speak with an attorney who does patent law. This is how I decided to proceed.

The symbol is used as a legal notice, as you pointed out.
In this case, the design for Hip Joints© -as well as the Enjoyyourshelf© racks- is copyrighted.
(The © symbol is the appropriate way to indicate this.)

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Recipe: Old razor scooter wheels made of some kind of very tough aluminum.
Chrome plated zinc drawer pulls from a home store. Fender washers. Epoxy.
Bolt the drawer pull via an appropriate fender washer after an application of epoxy. Wipe clean and let set.
The uerethane tire adds a nice look and who knows may act as a vibration sink...they certainly act like a shock absorber on the scooters.
The aluminum center contacts the surface it sits on.

 

On one of the sites, I read that this sort of isolation helps to reduce the nuisance factor loud music. This would actually be a big deal for me, since I live in an apartment and, more importantly, when my wife goes to bed she can practically hear the music like she is in the same room as me.

Has anyone found that these reduce the amount you hear music in other rooms? The theory is that it stops music from transmitting through the floors, which is an important way it travels to other parts of the building.

 

Hi Hypnotoad,

The main reason I use isolation is to prevent vibrations from entering the gear, not to prevent vibrations from leaving the gear. That said, it is something of a two way street.

Still, I doubt the floors are the main transmitter (outside of the bass) between rooms in an apartment. If the music is playing loudly, even if there was a way to completely remove the floor from the equation, transmission through the air will carry the sound through an apartment.

If the system is boomy, that could increase the "nuisance factor". Pay attention to speaker placement and make sure neither is near a wall or worst of all, near a corner.

Then again, if your speakers are spiked (or coned?) to the floor, they are efficiently coupling their energy to it. For however much it might help, you might want to try some roller bearings. You can rent a set from the Cable Company.

Remember to use something like a marble tile, smooth side down, between the bottom of the speaker and the balls of the roller bearings. (See diagrams in post #50.)

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi Barry

What is the significance of the marble tile between the bottom of the speaker and the balls?

JG

 

Hi JG,

In order for the roller bearings to work their best, the ball must be free to move as easily as possible.

If the speaker cabinet rested directly on the balls of the roller bearings, ultimately, with all its weight concentrated on the three tiny points of contact, the cabinet would develop "dimples". These would make for a larger contact surface and over (not much) time, would inhibit the freedom of motion in the ball.

Put another way, the speaker cabinet is not hard enough and not smooth enough to ensure all energy entering from the floor is converted into motion of the balls in the roller bearings. The cabinet would end up absorbing some of the energy we're trying to block by having the balls move around (to "use up" the energy instead of passing it on to the speaker).

Using a tile, smooth side down to contact the balls, ensures the rollers have a hard, smooth surface and all energy is used rolling the balls.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Couldn't have put it better myself!

JG

 

Those look great - you could make a business out of that, i bet.
I for one would be happy to buy 8 of the big one's for the speakers and another 4 small one's for my amp ! If interested pm me..

 

Thanks for the advice re: reducing nuisance factor. Sound really travels amazingly well (or poorly, from my point of view) through our large apartment. I am sure the plaster walls are part of it, but I thought traveling through the wood floors might be another part.

Here is where I read about reducing the nuisance factor:

http://www.townshendaudio.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=67&Itemid=139

 

Barry,


I also would like to try "floating" my speakers. My speakers are stand mounted Cremona Auditors. Would the presence of the stand, which has two small but non-removeable (i think) spikes up front and adjustable rake in the back (can be entirely removed), negate the benefits of floating?

I have experience floating/vibration control with my components with Aurios Pro Max and Symposium shelf/aluminum decouplers. The results have been positive. Would love to try out their Rollerblock products someday...

Jason

 

Hi Hypnotoad,

The Townshend stands are unique in that they are like having an air bearing under the speakers. I've heard demonstrations of these stands and they definitely work wonders.

Since roller bearings work primarily in the horizontal and rotational planes and air bearings primarily in the vertical planes, the idea would be a combination of both, to cover all axes of motion. (This is what I do for all my other components with my Enjoyyourshelf© racks.)

If I had to choose between rollers and air bearings, my experience has been that rollers might be the way I'd go. Happily, I don't have to choose and can use both for all components with the exception of the speakers.

I'd like to use both rollers and air bearings under my speakers too but I hesitate to put an air bearing under each of my speakers because the speakers are tall. I'd hate to have a guest unwittingly bump into one and see the speaker fall over.

So, I compromise and use rollers only.
If you can get the Townshend stands, I believe they would help to some degree but the fact is, if you are listening at a healthy level, a closed door to another room will only cut the level by 20 dB - not enough to prevent someone in the other room from hearing the sound.

Also, if the other room has any dimensions that are similar to each other - say a square shaped room or one where the ceiling height is very close to the width of the room, it won't take much to excite that other room's own resonant modes.
This will be exacerbated by the speakers being located close the any walls in the room they are in.

Trapping the corners in the music room and possibly in the other room would do more to curb any "boom" - assuming that is the primary "nuisance".

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi Jason,

In the case of speakers/stands such as yours, what I would try is to place the entire assembly on a roller + marble tile (smooth side down).
That is, rollers on the floor, a marble tile atop the rollers and the Cremona stand atop the tile.

That way, you keep the rake and height provided by the stands (adding only an inch or two to the height) but get the benefits of roller bearings.

You can always try renting a couple of sets and listening to the results to see if you like what you hear.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi Barry,

Does the base for the roller bearing have to be concave or can it be flat?

JG