Attention Barry Diament and other speaker isolation gurus!

Hi JG,

The part the ball sits in must be concave or it won't act as an isolator.

It is the concavity the makes the ball oscillate back and forth when its support is displaced. The ball "uses up" the energy going up the curved wall of the concavity and the concavity ultimately returns the ball (hence the component being supported) to its center, "resting" position.

No oscillation = no resonance.
No resonance = no isolation (at frequencies ~1.4x and above resonance).

The bottom surface (floor or shelf facing) of the part the ball sits in should be flat but this is less important as long as it is stable.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Ok...I did something and I'm floored!!!!
(or rather I'm floating!)

Gort Gary had designed his own version of this and I just copied the design completely...drawer pulls and another part similar to screw them into (tightly) and then complimented by steel shots...about 1/4" in diameter....

Also 1/2" marble tile....took them back and put them in and....

Oh wow! Holographic...out of speaker...more bass than before...smooth highs...(thanx to ditching the concrete block)

Barry...thank you...it worked...and now I am a believer! And this is the low-rent version!

 

Great news Paul!

If you get the chance, try the same thing under your other components.
Next to speakers, I find CD players show the greatest improvements but the effects are cumulative and I ended up with every single component afloat.

By the way, try them on a DVD player and check out the improvements in contract, focus, overall cleanliness of the video.

***
For all my non-speaker components, I'm using rollers in combination with air bearings. You can make an air bearing from a child's bicycle tire inner tube.

I use an 18" x 1.75" tube, minimally inflated (i.e. only enough to achieve air support) on my shelf, a 20"x 20" x 1" plywood "platform" atop the inner tube and the roller bearings atop the platform.

(Air bearings will need periodic re-inflation but I consider this a tiny price to pay for the sonic benefits.)

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

I have done this with the same design...the results were dramatic under the Jolida 302 power amp, and somewhat under the Oppo DV-970...my wife commented on the amp once it had been floated...(it is a tube amp...) one thing that is for certain is that we both noticed a drastic change in how things were sounding overall once the speakers had been floated...
I like it very much! The concrete blocks were pitched this morning!

 

Hi Barry, I have a few questions in regards the bearings:

Do they need to be steel bearings?

What about ceramic bearings (like the ones used for bike bearings but made of ceramic)?

Are the steel ones better for isolation?

What diameter the bearing should be?

I'm in the process of doing my isolation platform and these questions came across.

 

Hi EaRp,

I have experimented with Chrome Steel and with Tungsten Carbide.
I found the TC balls to sound better but because I have so many sets of roller bearings (under every component in the system), I decided to save some $ and have been happy using Chrome Steel.

I've never tried ceramic bearings.

The best ones would appear to be the hardest and smoothest ones, making it easiest for the ball to roll.

This depends on the diameter of the "bowl" it sits in.
I have been using 1/2" Chrome Steel bearings from Small Parts.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Thanks Barry for the answers and the website they are very helpful!

Time to fabricate my isolation platform!

 

I just bought a bag of 25 1/2" Chrome Steel balls from Small Parts to go with my "bowls". Cost was low and shipped to my house in less than a week.

I'm enjoying the benefits the last few nights. Haven't put the speakers on bearings yet as my son's cat has discovered he likes the view from the top of my speakers and the ham-handed cleaning lady knocks the spikes off the coasters when she vacuums. GRRRRR.

I am thinking of something more idiot-proof, but you know what they say. Every time you make something idiot-proof, they come up with a better idiot!

Eric

 

Get rid of the cleaning lady if she's that clumsy, or clean the room yourself.

 

BigE: What cups did you use?

I feel like there has to be somebody manufacturing appropriate steel cups for some other purpose...

 

Lets Google it!

 

I already posted a source. See Page 1, post #14.

 

I don't know what to google. But tell me if something turns up!

Vinyl-Addict: Thanks. But a drawer pull like that would need to be "filled in" along the edges, right? Otherwise all the pressure would be on one point and it would be ever less stable. Certainly a nice DIY option (once somehow more secured), but I feel that there must be something more like what you pictured earlier.

 

Yes, you would have to make a holder for the drawer pull. At some point you have to ask yourself if it's worth the time to put together this sort of thing rather than just buy the real item in question. If you're good with your fabricating skills, give it a shot. If you're not, I would forget about making them since your equipment may end up on the floor should your DIY roller ball setup fail. Now that would really hurt the old pocketbook.

 

These are the home-built one's that I'm replacing with machined "pucks". The performance of the home-builts were suprisingly good.

 

I saw this inverted stainless steel knob in a local store, a bit pricey (if it wasn't successful, $9), so that would be $54 dollars for six.

Anybody any opinions?

JG

 

Has a point at the bottom...the bottom should be smooth and allow for the bearing to move freely I should think...back on the first page there was a post to a kind of door knob that works well and is kinda what I constructed...

 

The one i saw doesn't have a point at the bottom, I actually brought a ball bearing with me to check it out (nice free movement) and it was quite heavy as well. The only problem I could see was that the base was thinner than the upper part, so that might make it unstable!.

JG

 

So the one pictured with a distinctive point at the bottom of the cone (the inside of the cone) isn't the one you are describing?

Sorry I'm confused...I believe the inside of the concave surface must be smooth and without any centerpoint like the one you have pictured has...

 

Hi James,

In my experience, the rounder and shallower the bowl, the free the ball is to roll and the longer it will continue rolling. Both of these are what you want: free motion and motion for as long as possible.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

I think it looks like that in the photo no doubt, but no it certainly hasn't got a point.

JG

 

See Barry's post right above your last one...

 

...which should have said "the freer the ball is to roll..."
(Sorry for the typo.)

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

If you should buy any bowl type holder, make sure it has a spherical radius and is smooth. If there are too many cylindrical lines running concentrically around the bowl profile, the ball bearing will not move freely. The profile must be extremely smooth so a little handy work may be involved to smooth out the bowl. All commercially sold roller balls have extremely smooth polished low friction surfaces with a fairly shallow spherical radius.

 

I put my Monitor Audio GR-20s up on the bearings last night (after the cleaning lady left) and spent about 3 hours listening to the results. The difference is really quite dramatic. Everything seems tighter, low to high, and the soundstage seems much deeper on some recordings and more enveloping on others than it was without the bearings in place.

I've now got the bearings under all the PrimaLuna gear, the NAD M55 and the speakers. I removed them (the home-built ones) from under the turntable as I didn't really seem to get any benefit there and it is a real PITA to spin the platter to brush the record without making the table squirm around.

I'll try to post some picts later on tonight or before the weekend is over.

Now I've got to find some cones and caution tape to keep everyone AWAY!!! LOL

Eric