Attention Barry Diament and other speaker isolation gurus!

III'MM WWAAIITTIINNGG!

JG

 

Soooooooorrrrrrrrrrry,

Camera needs batteries. I'll pick some up on the way home tonight.

Eric

 

Oh! That might have some 'bearing' on it!

JG

 

Okay, ladies and gents. Got batteries for the camera and I've got pictures to post!!

The pictures attached to this post show the pucks and bearings up close and then under the speakers.


I'll post more of the system and the room in the appropriate threads.

Eric

 

The pucks are machined from aircraft grade aluminum (7075 I think) and the 1/2" bearings are grade 24 from Small parts. The clear panels on top of the bearings are 1/2" Lexan. Speakers are Monitor Audio GR-20s.

The cone shaped metal part next to the pucks is a door pull I sourced from The Great Indoors. I had three of these mounted to the lexan panels prior to having the pucks made. It has a narrower dish so a 3/8" bearing worked better in these. They were suprisingly good for the minimal investment. They are shown in more detail in the old Tips & Tweaks thread.

Eric

 

Here's a few more views.

My apologies to you guys on dial-up.

 

Here's a shot of the home-builts that I used under my equipment. They sat kind of high so I was afraid to put the speakers up on them.

 

Eric, Where did you obtain the machined pucs? They look very similar to mine.

 

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the great pics! Just wondering what type of floor are the speakers on, carpeted, wooden or tiles (as in pic)?

My only problem with using something like that is that the puks wouldn't be very stable on a carpeted floor!

JG

 

You could lay down a sheet of Lexan on the carpet then the bearings on top of that and then another tile of some sort on top under the speaker. Time will tell if the Lexan is too soft a material that the balls dent into it. Also, as Barry has stated on a number of occasions any tile you use should be "dead" not a "ringer". Pick it up by the corner and rap on it with your knuckle. If it rings, you don't want it. Whatever you use it must be smooth to offer the least resistance to the ball movement.


Eric

 

Hi James,

It depends on how thick the carpet is. If the carpet is thick or you are concerned, you can place a hard surface, such as a marble tile or even a piece of plywood, between the carpet and the bearings.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

James:

I put my bearings (Aurio Pro Max's) directly on wool carpeting. The speakers are heavy and they easily compressed the carpeting enough to be quite stable.

 

Thanks for the tips guys!

I have seen a nice granite slab about 1/4'' thick in a store about the same width and depth as my speakers.

JG

 

Hi James,

This might work between the carpet and the rollers.
I wouldn't use this between the rollers and the speakers though, because granite tends to "ring". This will add some brightening and hardening to the sound, where a marble tile (which can be more "dead" if you find the right tile) will leave the sound unaltered.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi Barry,

If I put a marble slab on a short hair carpet (and then speaker stand on marble), wouldn't it be essentially "floating" already? Is there benefit in additional isolation between carpet and marble?

 

Hi WilsonTCC,

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding your question.
It seems you are asking if a tile on the carpet will provide isolation for a speaker placed directly on that tile.

A tile by itself (just like a set of cones or spikes) will provide no isolation whatsoever. It will probably change the sound (like cones or spikes) because anything you put under -or on top of- a component will change its sound.

But the emphasis here is on "change". There will be a subtle difference in the sound but such changes tend to be random (and non-repeatable and non-consistent) and may just as easily result in worse sound than better sound... or just simply a change that is neither better or worse... or gains in some areas of reproduction and losses in others.

When I refer to something as "floating", I do this because that is how components or speakers appear to move when they are supported by a mechanical low-pass filter like a set of roller bearings or an air bearing. If the device is well designed and properly used, the component is supports will "jiggle" slowly when gently pushed and released, as though on a soft spring.

It is the motion of the "spring" that creates the filtering action which isolates the device being supported. As you'll note, simply putting a speaker on a marble tile (or a set of cones) and gently pushing on it will not result in any motion at all. That is because in the absence of real isolation, the speaker or component is coupled to the surface it rests on. Coupling is the exact opposite of isolating.

So, a speaker on a marble tile or slab is not floating and is not isolated.

Using a tile on a carpeted floor, then putting roller bearings atop the tile, will ensure that any motion in the floor is fully transmitted to the balls in the roller bearings and not absorbed by flexure in the carpet.

Using a second tile (smooth side down) atop the balls of the roller bearings, provides a hard surface for the balls to roll against. Otherwise, free motion of the ball is inhibited by the relatively soft bottom of the speaker cabinet (which can dent and prevent any rolling).

The harder the contact surfaces, the easier it is for the balls to roll. The easier it is for the balls to roll, the more (audibly) effective the isolation.

When a component is properly isolated, the performance improvements are consistent and repeatable. And they cover every area of audio reproduction I know how to describe: bass extension and pitch definition, treble extension and clarity, dynamic response and "punch", soundstage dimensions, stereo imaging, image solidity and stability, overall clarity, etc. etc.

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Well explained Barry, and my apology for not phrasing my question well.

What I was trying to ask is that: if a tile is placed on a carpet, would the fibers of the carpet act as many little springs to support the tile, therefore the tile can be viewed as floating on the carpet rather than coupling with it.

Of course, type of carpet and length of the individual fibers make a difference, but is that correct in theory?

 

Hi WilsonTTC,

In my view, no, the carpet fibers will not provide any isolation whatsoever.

If you get to see how a speaker that is truly "afloat" jiggles in response to being gently pushed, then released, you'll know the difference.
(Of course, if you get to hear the effect, you'll know it even better. ;-} )

Put another way, if you place the tile on a carpet (any carpet), then put the speaker on the tile and gently push the speaker, what happens? Nothing at all happens. There is no "spring", no "jiggle", no isolation.

It might be easier to consider the spring suspension of an automobile and how the car bounces after going over a bump in the road. (Car suspensions are strongly dampened, unlike an ideal component isolator, which will continue to "jiggle". In a car, we just want the bump "softened" and any bouncing to stop as soon as possible. With audio, we want the bounce to continue as long as possible since less damping equals a steeper roll off above resonance or in plain english, greater isolation.)

Now picture making a "cover" for your tires out of carpet (any carpet). If you removed the car's shock absorbers, would you expect that carpet to smooth the ride over a bump? It will work about as well as not having anything at all - because the carpet, while soft under our feet, will not act as a spring and hence will not offer any isolation.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Hi Gary,

If you ever get to try them, try a set of three roller bearings under each speaker and replace the concrete with marble tile (used face down, smooth side facing the balls of the roller bearings).

I warn you though: you will be spending a lot of time listening to every record in your collection because they'll all sound better than you thought.
And you'll be smiling ear to ear.

As I've said before, please don't take my word for this.
If you're interested, try it yourself and draw your own conclusions.
Just be prepared to do a lot of smiling. ;-}

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

BTW..
Gary came to see me on Saturday and he noticed the change in the system...now he hadn't been to my new place, but he noted that it sounded better than he remembered...and that every time something (hopefully intelligent!) was done to it it it had sounded better....(one of them being getting the turntable off of marble and now...this...)

BTW it was Gary's specific design that I used...(p.s. Gar, I still have MANY steel rollers to give you!)

 

OK, I think I get it. It needs to have total freedom of movement in the horizontal plane.

 

Hi WilsonTCC,

Yes, exactly... as if suspended by a horizontal spring, which is what the "bowl" of the roller bearing base will create when the ball is placed in it.

Any energy moving the ball will be used up as work when the ball climbs the side of the bowl. The shape of the bowl will ultimately re-center the ball and hence, the component/speaker being supported.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Thanks for sharing your knowledge Barry, I always enjoy your posts! I think that I will give it a try as I'm intrigued and I have access to everything that I need to make some bases for the balls (via a family member). Just need to find an appropriate tile. Is there anything that is critical to watch out for re: ratio between the bearing and bowl radii before I dive into it?

Regards,
Richard