Capitol Beatles Box Set Vol 2 - Continued (Part 2)

The part I don't get is why Capitol would have to wait for the mono mixes -- why didn't EMI send both sets of tapes together?

 

I guess we'll never know the answer. Sometimes, Martin created unique mixes just for the US...other times Capitol, in their rush to do things (Yesterday...& Today), created duophonic mixes BEFORE George Martin even made his own stereo mixes. Since Capitol included the latest singles on the LPs, stereo mixes often hadn't been made yet either. I'm guessing all the litigation involving VJ, kept Capitol from getting the mono tapes used on EB....that's why the mono LP was all fold-downs oiginally. Back then few, if anyone noticed....or cared. Ron

 

Well is what you're saying is that where Capitol added tracks not on the original UK LP issues, they took mono originals of Beatle singles, created the Duophonic nightmare for the stereo LP and then folded them back down to mono for the mono LP? Or is there something else involved? I assume it's just the occasional track where this travesty occured. Then, to be "accurate" to the original Capitol, which is the exercise at hand, that needs to be repeated. Otherwise you're re-writing history.

If an original mono Beatle album has a track or two that's folded down from Duophonic, then I suppose that's how it should appear on these new CDs. However, my original mono Capitol "Rubber Soul" doesn't have the "false start" on "I'm Looking Through You," so if the new CD's mono version does, then, that's NG...

Give me a few examples from the book, please....

I have not paid as much attention to the Capitol releases because as soon as I heard a UK Beatle album (back in 1965), I switched over and didn't look back until the "end" of the LP era, when I bought up American originals in stereo and mono just to have them.....

 

For the time being, let's all cool off and wait to see what Capitol does to fix the set. There are two very encouraging things going one here:

1) Wollensack has spoken to his contacts at Capitol who are "very close to the project," and these people were shocked at the use of the wrong tapes, told him that it was a mistake, and that Capitol would fix it;

2) Michael Fremer is contacting Ted Jensen to find out which tapes he was supplied with to do the mastering, and he will report his findings back here if he can.

What more can we ask for? Let's sit tight and wait until this shakes out.

 

Michael,

The problem with what is going on with the set is that it apparently is *not* historically accurate.

Here is an example: in 1965 Capitol released stereo and mono versions of Rubber Soul. The mono version was *not* a fold down from the stereo LP, and used the genuine mono mix tapes.

In the new box set, the mono tracks on the Rubber Soul CD apparently are fold downs of the stereo tracks. This is *not* how the mono Rubber Soul LP was released in 1965.

This is all discussed in this thread. It would take you a gazillion years to read it all, but you may want to.

 

No, I think they always used the mono single mixes for the mono LPs. However, in the odd cases where they had stereo LP tracks (but no mono tapes yet), they simply folded down the stereos for the mono LPs. "Meet The Beatles" and "The Early Beatles" were done this way, as well as "Help!" and a few other scattered tracks.

More than occasional, but yes, for the new CD sets, Capitol has bravely stuck with historical accuracy by using the original 1960s masters, warts and all. Until this current error, that is.

Bingo! Now you understand the uproar. The U.S. mono "Rubber Soul" not only used the authentic UK mono mixes, but there was one mono mix (for "Michelle") that was RE-DONE for the UK "Rubber Soul", which makes the U.S. mono LP extra-special, and the error extra-bad.

It seems it will be fixed, though, so joy will again reign throughout the land.

 

Does that mean they will delay the release then, so it can be fixed?

 

We don't know yet.

 

I love how all of this is un-folding. This is probably how Gorby felt during the fall of the U.S.S.R.

 

I still maintain this was not a mistake. Bruce Spizer's notes with word's obviously omitted told the story of what was coming. Fold-downs. I had began at one point to think it was an April fools joke until "brainwashed" clarified that the note's were Bruce's, that's why I reverted back to my original position that they would all be fold-downs.

 

I believe the Help album version of "Ticket To Ride" is the only instance of a duophonic stereo mix being folded to mono. All other Capitol mono songs are either true mono or a fold-down of true stereo.

 

Mistake?

I tend to agree, Waxman.

"How did that happen?"

Just a chance to create an instant "Collectable" for the first run, to bilk those obsessed completists out of the cost to buy it twice.

Also no coincidence that the Fab 2 + 2 went to court vs EMI [read '& Capitol projects'] over royalties issues past and future, although if they will settle by April remains to be seen.

'Rare 2006 Stereo-Folded-Down-To-Mono Mixes", indeed...

I heard my local oldies station play and proudly annouince "From the upcoming Beatles Capitol Albums Box Vol. 2, the complete HELP! with the James Bond Intro!" this morning.
Do they have it already, too?

Thanks Wollensack and Harry for the info, and keep us posted, those of you on the inside track!

 

Welcome!!!

 

Michael,

there are many members here much better versed in the intricacies of Capitol's treatment of the Beatles catalogue in the 60s than I. I'm happy to let them answer your questions - you'll get more reliable answers that way!

The first time I heard any US albums was when Capitol Albums Vol 1 came out in late 2004 - I guess I should consider myself lucky to have grown up with original UK LPs in the 70s and 80s.

On the recommendations from this forum I am actually awaiting delivery of Bruce Spizer's 2 Capitol books as we speak......

 

That was exactly my point earlier on...I think they wanted to leave room for the UK mono mixes, but still, these are different LP's with different songs...why would it matter if both mono versions existed?

 

Even so, the UK mono mixes arent' all the same as the US versions. "Michelle" was a completely different mono mix (louder percussion and I believe a longer fade). They have absolutely no reason to cheat us out of the mono mix other than they are A) damaged or not found 2 ) Someone involved in the mastering is too stupid to know the difference in the mono & stereo mix and there was possibly a programming error along the way ("Duh, Hey, let's put the mono verson on there too..just hit that button mono over there!"....) ...

 

Also, the Press release was TOO SPECIFIC about which mono mixes will be fold-downs, and which ones will be regular UK mono mixes with Capitol's treatment added. This really doesnt sound like anything other than an error in the pressing.

 

Then why does the press release say it's available on April 11 ? Why would they change the dates in the promos for other countries? I can understand April 10 for the UK version, but over a week in advance does not make sense to me. There has to be an error in the foreign pressings.

 

Umm, jpgr4ever, you're quoting posts that were made early this morning (Eastern Time). There's been much development in both this thread and another Wollensack thread. I suggest you read through those before replying to old posts.

Just a friendly suggestion...

Harry

 

Is it possible the mono fold-downs could have been made for comparison purposes? In other words deliberately created from the newly mastered stereo version as a test of some kind to double-check the fidelity or dynamics of the newly mastered original mono mix. And then the new mono mixes were used by accident due to an error in documentation or something along those lines...

And are we talking a straight fold-down here, or is it possible in the case of Rubber Soul this is a remix from the 2-track stereo master where they've re-balanced the instrumental side with the vocal side? I wonder if we could talk Robert into doing his own fold down from a Rubber Soul track and seeing if it matches exactly the set's mono "fold-down" version.

 

I think something like this could be highly likely. Perhaps the 2006 fold-downs were needed quickly to check out something or other along the chain of manufacturing, since they were easy enough to create. Then the snafu occured where they accidentally got used in the final mastering process. Something like that has got to be the explanation. Seems like it could be an innocent enough mistake to me, and I'm sure someone, somewhere has heard about it bigtime, and is feeling pretty bad about it, perhaps even fired - pure speculation here.

Harry

 

I see what you're getting at, but please read the press release again, the one posted on this forum that has the added notation's below each CD track listing. It is not an error. Those note's were added by Bruce Spizer according to forum members here. The notation's have made it clear from the moment it was posted that these would be fold-downs. "First time in mono on CD". The word original does not appear with the word mono in the Spizer notations. The generic heading above the set that says "Stereo Recordings/Original Mono Recordings" legally means nothing more than each CD must contain no less than 2 recording's in stereo (of any type) and no less than 2 mono recording's that have never been presented on CD before. A brand new stereo-to-mono fold-down is in fact an "Original Mono Recording". It is a recording in mono. Has it ever been sold on CD before? No. Then it is "Original". And it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that the fold-down was actually made back then, just never used. Capitol felt like they had been burned before, not getting mono masters in the time frame they demanded. Safeguard, just in case. Stranger things have happened, especially when it comes to Beatles & Capitol. And even if it was a mistake and someone in quality control or the recording end at Capitol wants it fixed that doesn't mean that the financial department is going to pay any attention to them. No way, when these are done and ready for shipping. Forget it.

 

Ridiculous. "Original Mono Recordings" means that the ORIGINAL MONO RECORDINGS would be on the set, not NEWLY-CREATED MONO FOLD DOWNS.

Frankly, you don't sound like you are coming from an informed perspective when you say that "original mono recordings" means that only two of the tracks have to be "original mono recordings." I will not comment further on this, but please, if you are not a lawyer, refrain from guessing what that phrase "legally means."

 

Pun intended?