Cream (BEST versions on cd?)

There seems to be some differing opinions for Goodbye, and Live 1 and 2. Any specifics about why the originals might be better than the MFSL's?

Also, could anyone please post catalog numbers so I would know what to ask for if I wanted to track down those early Polydors? (No UPCs on these, right? Or do some have them?) Thanks!

 

The Mofi discs sound like they have bloated bass to me on Goodbye and Live 1/II. On Goodbye I'd go so far as to say it sounds a bit ridiculous.

I prefer the Polydor or RSO CDs for these. For each of these titles there is only one mastering prior to the 1997 remasters, so don't worry about country of origin, UPC codes, whether it's RSO or Polydor and all of that...

 

Jeff- Thanks!

 

Who-eee. Got an old Live to compare to my MFSL. (US Polydor/Polygram) Drats. They *are* different. Here are my notes from this morning: The orig has less bass, sounds more 1 dimensional (like AM radio), but sounds more open and balanced. The MFSL does have more bass, and sounds more 3-D like (like FM). But it also sounds more closed off. (Reading that now, seems a little contradictory, aay?) I could like either one, but I'm gravitating to the Polydor. So the next question would be: what is closer to the vinyl? Anyone know?

I have Vol 2 and Goodbye on the way.

 

Got Goodbye today, and I agree with Jeff. Worse than Live Vol 1 at least. Bass is too loud.

OK, but I need some help here. Here are the spectrums from Audacity, and you can't see much of a difference (this way):

Glad MFSL:


Glad Polydor/Polygram US:


(The highs are rolled off for the older CD, which I'm being told by at least one person might be common on early releases.)

So I figured I'd be smart , and subtract the two, because then I should the bass emphasized for the MFSL. But here is what I get. This is the MFSL minus the Poly:



(y=dB, x= Hz) I thought we'd see some kind of hump lower down, not this high up. Anyone know what the range is for freqs on a bass guitar? (I didn't include the roll off here, > 20k.)

 

I got it! Although I don't 100% understand it. I always look at those spectrums with freq linearly. We hear logarithmically, but you can see smaller differences with a linear plot. Here is that same subtraction (MFSL minus Poly) with log freq (20 - 20k data). See the hump below 100 Hz? Smiley faced EQ gosh dern it !!



And you see that drop up near 20kHz? I bet that's an attempt to suppress background tape hiss... B*st#rds!

 

Interesting stuff, Kevin.

 

I just received Live Cream Vol. 1 & 2 from Joachim as the first Japanese pressings (P33P). I was expecting the same mastering as my early WG RSO versions (as is the case very often).

To my surprise, I found out that it is a completely different mastering. They sound quite different and also have different timing.

I prefer the P33P, these are nice. The WG RSO (Polydor) versions are also nice, and back when I compared the WG RSO of Vol. 2 with the MFSL, I did prefer the WG over the MFSL. The P33P is even better (and I am not talking about pressing differences here).

 

I like the Deluxe Edition of Disraeli Gears well. I really like the old WG RSO Disraeli Gears much better than the US one. It's not excessively bright on top unlike the US one which is edgy sounding.

 

Roland- I hate to ask ... (For fear that I'd want these ones ...) Can you post some samples?

 

FWIW, I just picked up a copy of the West German RSO:

825 414-2 01 *
825 415-2 01 *

I ripped White Room, Crossroads and Spoonful from the RSO and (German) Polydor. All 3 tracks are identical on the 2 sets. The only difference is there's an offset of 106 samples for disc 1 and 148 samples for disc 2. There are some minor differences in the artwork, but they are essentially the same. The art on the US Polydor set is quite different.

So it looks like that well a new pressing was ordered in Europe at some point, the mastering didn't change.

 

I would recommend the same versions as above for these albums.

Goodbye - non-remastered Polydor/RSO (Dennis Drake I think)
Live Cream (both volumes) - 1st Japanese P33P pressings (these have a unique and superior mastering - I am not talking about pressing differences here)

 

You will need the boxset for the superior alternate mixes that Bill Levenson discovered.

 

I agree with Chris. The best sounding Oakland Coliseum mixes (Deserted Citites Of The Heart, White Room and Politician) are IMHO on the "Those Were The Days" box set. Far cleaner than what I suspect were the rough mixes accidentally included on the original Live Cream Vol. 2. The other reason for purchasing that set is the inclusion of different and clearer (although bass shy) mixes of the 2 of the 3 LA Forum tracks from Goodbye (the LA Forum Politician was not included, because the Oakland Coliseum version was picked instead), a previously unreleased version of NSU live (IMHO not as good as the superb version on Live Cream, which it replaced) and several at that stage unreleased studio rehearsals and lost tracks.
Re: the digital skip - I thought that was my copy only until I read about the remastering in.......I think it was a magazine called Digital Audio ....or something......involving correcting the skip.

 

I think the LP mixes were just 're-dubbed with EQ and compression' as Steve would say. I doubt they used rough mixes by mistake.

No doubt. The alternate mixes of I'm So Glad and Sitting On Top Of The World are big upgrades over the LP mixes. You can hear what Ginger was playing much better on the alt mixes.

 

The Oakland Coliseum cymbal crashes seem to bleed into various microphones and alter the positioning of those cymbals in the stereo picture according to how loud they are at the time. This is not present on the Those Were The Days mixes, whereas it is all too obvious on the original Live Cream Vol 2 mixes. The stereo picture seems to be placed differently also. It's not a case of the same stereo tape being used and re-equalised and compressed IMHO. I thought initially that this had been done to the LA Forum tapes, but the stereo picture is completely different as well.

 

Any chance you could post a sample? While I like the original (unremastered) discs better than the MFSL's I had, I think they could be improved on.

 

Here you go:

Sample 1 - Sleepy Sleepy Time (P33W 25008)
https://rcpt.yousendit.com/625520206/5d5d44959d3c3bc549db6ac50d4a7842

Sample 2 - White Room (P33W 25012)
https://rcpt.yousendit.com/625520874/d38218326c5b56c0a480b2f933dd76c5

 

Thanks Roland. Will take me a day or two.

 

Anybody spring for this -
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:gjfexzwjldje

to see what the first official digital releases of the mono mixes for "I Feel Free", "N.S.U.", and "Spoonful" sound like?

 

Roland and all- I compared today, and I was a little surprised by what I heard. I have both original masters for Live and II. I had the MFSLs (well, still have them, haven't sold them just yet.)

P33W vs original Live Cream: here, the Japan has a lot more bass. Didn't seem as bad as the MFSL in this regard, but still, a little too much in my opinion. Plus, the P33W seems to have less highs than the original. I am leaning towards the original here.

P33W vs II: this is where I got surprised. 1st, the channels are reversed. Here, the differences are smaller. The highs for the P33W seem a little crispier than the original, but not necessarily in a bad way. It's almost like the entire soundstage has more ... definition? I'm almost wondering if this is the better master that was on Those Were the Days for some of these tracks? Be curious if John B. could give a listen. For this one, I'm really torn. I could go either way, original or the Japan.

I'd be super curious for others to compare as well. Also, earlier in this thread I did some Audacity with MS Excel EQ stuff. I'll try to do that tonight. Curious if that matches what I hear.

 

Throwin in my two cents

Just reading this thread, and wanted to comment.

Having owned all the Cream catalog on vinyl, and having all the
"audiophile" versions on compact disc, I'd have to say this:

1. In general, all the Mobile Fidelity titles sound clearer, with
tighter bass and smoother sound. Very nice.

2. I never liked the sound of any of the earlier RSO made in
Hanover (or wherever it was). Just awful.

3. Of the two DCC titles, WOF was nicely done and a real
improvement, while Fresh Cream blows my mind every
time I listen to it. What a beautiful job! A big thank you
to Steve Hoffman

4. I thought the box, Those Were The Days could have been
done much better. If only Mr. Hoffman could redo that, then
that would be all a person needs (that and the tapes from
the Grand Ballroom in Detroit, October 15, 1967).

Love the Cream!

 

Along these lines, here are samples from three different versions of "Badge" from Goodbye. In this case, I found the Drake to be by far the best, the P33 way too bright and the MFSL a distant third (smiley-faced EQ).

As a side note: I happened to compare these CDs to an excellent sounding Japanese 2-LP set called Perfect Cream because I had it out one day after scoring it pretty cheap. The Drake was quite close in its tonality, the other two were not even close.

Drake (Polydor)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=Y2o4NHA5dEM0b0NGa1E9PQ


P33W
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=Y2o4NHA0WlRuSlRIRGc9PQ


MFSL
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=Y2o4NHAwMVhxRTJGa1E9PQ

 

What's the best vinyl?

 

Desire Is The Cause Of All Suffering

Wouldn't mind having a listen to these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/CREAM-CLAPTON-J...temQQimsxZ20081113?IMSfp=TL081113129007r36573