Installing a Dynavector 10x5 on a P3...What do I need?

Congratulations, Ian! Get the cartridge mounting screws tight so that they don't move and you are all set for years of record collecting!
-Bill

 

I thought the procedure was to set the VTF to zero, balance the arm, then set the VTF to the desired setting, no?

 

If it is, then that would likely explain why I had to adjust the conterweight more than I expected when I went to the Shure gauge to check it. In any case, I ended up in the same place.

 

I just checked mine when i got home tonight and had used the STEVENSON protractor and so reset it using the BAERWALD which requires you to shuffle the cartridge a little furhter up the arm and the results seem good.
( i am enjoying Art Pepper + 11 45rpm)
From Vinylengine's website

Which is the best?

I won’t tell you there is one better than the others. Make your own opinion.

Simply, the equation you need to solve to find optimal alignment is undetermined: there are too many unknown parameters. Baerwald, Loefgren and Stevenson apply different objective constraints to the problem to allow a solution:

Baerwald The distortion at the beginning, the middle (where it’s high) and the end of the record must be equal

Loefgren Alignment must minimize the distortion across the record

Stevenson Distortion is more important at the end of the record so let’s minimize it by assuming a null point at the end of the record, i.e. at 60.325 mm (IEC standard end of the record)

 

Ian, someone may already have asked, but do you have a Rega dealer nearby who could finish the installation?

 

Hmm. Not sure what you mean.

 

Oh Oh ...it's Friday nite ---he wants a fight

 

I just meant... what's left to finish?

 

NO...i meant the other guy (& i was joking) .
I agree ...you came thru with flying colours ( maybe he does not think so)

 

I think Jay was just a bit baffled by the method. The result is the same. It sounds like Ian has it where it should be and likes what he hears, so I'd say he's ready to rock!
-Bill

 

sorry, sometimes stuff flies right overhead

 

I must have missed a post or 12. I thought you were unhappy with the sound.

 

So....

nobody here experienced with "denuding" the 10x5?

 

It's much more primitive at the vinyl forum in the Audio Asylum. There's lots of talk there about the Denon and Dynavector tribes running around nekid....

 

So...what's the standard procedure for setting the VTF:

1) Set the VTF to zero, balance the arm with the counterweight, then set the VTF to the desired setting, or

2) Set the VTF to the desired setting first, then balance the arm with the counterweight?

 

1) Set the VTF to zero, balance the arm with the counterweight, then set the VTF to the desired setting.

It's faster and easier that way. It also doesn't require a scale as you are calibrating the arm to zero grams VTF by balancing it, then using the incorporated VTF dial, which has already been set at the factory. It is possible that the dial would not be 100% accurate, but then it is also possible that an aftrmarket scale is not, as well as the method used to weigh. The scale needs to be level at the height of the Lp surface to accurately measure the VTF on a Rega arm as it is spring loaded and by raising the position of the arm, you increase the tension of the spring, therefore increasing the measurement of the scale (which will then be inaccurate) and possibly result in a user setting the VTF too low.

My recommendation has been to just set the arms up per the manufacturer's directions and then if you want to experiment with a bit more or less weight/force due to the recommended range specified by the cartridge manufacturer, then you can always do that. I find that by increasing the VTF, I get better bass and midbass which warming up the highs a bit. Lowering it, can help tracking of the HF modulations and increase high frequency resolution if the cartridge is tracking really well but it also thins the sound out a little. If the cartridge is not tracking so well, it is often because there is not enough VTF applied and the result is HF distortion. If you have the cartridge set-up within the range specified by the mfr and you are not getting any HF distortion and the sound is sufficiently full, then that is where you want it.

Perhaps more important to the tone of the playback is the arm height as it effects both frequency and dynamics. Raising the arm will increse dynamics and thin out the sound some, while lowering it affords a warmer, softer sound. The real trouble with all of these adjustments is that they are all interrelated. If you mess with one, you affect the others. Raising the arm with a spacer for instance may result in proper VTA (arm height for simplicity) but it will change the alignment that was done with the arm at the lower slightly as well. Once you have set-up and reset-up everything two or three times, you'll likely find that CDs sound better than you had thought before ;-). It's worth it though, really! It is one reason why I like Rega tables. Once I get everything adjusted where I want it, I can tighten it up and it stays put for a very long time.
-Bill

 

3) Set the VTF to max (3,5), then set VTF with a gauge.

This is supposed to decouple the vtf-spring from the arm, and give sonic benefits

 

I just got my pre-owned Dynavector 10x5 in the mail today.

No box. No documentation. But that's okay, this is exactly as I understood it to be. I purchased this thing for $200 and I considered the loss of these things to be more than acceptable.

I rigged up 2mm shims in a very rube-goldberg style as I really didn't feel like waiting several days for a package from an online retailer. Some unnamed brick and mortar hifi store in Manhattan refused to sell me a friggin spacer because I'd not purchased my gear or cartridge at their establishment. Choads. So now I'm going back and forth on a regular spacer or a VTA adjustable device like the Expressimo (no way am I drilling into my plinth!).

So I got this thing together, and I have to say the new installed Dyna BLOWS AWAY the Rega Elys2. There is no contest. I played a difficult to track LP - the 25th anniversary issue of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon and skipped right to the "Eclipse" where I'm used to hearing all manner of sibilance and fuzz. This is a completely different record.

I have a slightly abused but very loved copy of "The Band" (the brown album) with a lime green label cut by RL and its surface noise has all but disappeared. Again, it is a different record!

The thing I was not prepared for is how forgiving this cartridge is in addition to it sounding so much more relaxed and natural. I think I understand what folks mean when they say something sounds "sweet" because there is a stridency and edginess that is gone from my music room with the Elys2 uninstalled.

I have a VERY well-played RL Zeppelin II I'm gonna throw on real quick. I have a feeling it will be miraculously cleaned up like the Band LP.

Thanks you all for your very valuable comments and contributions on this thread. Even without the correct parts (don't worry, they're coming!) the install took no more than 15 minutes. The pix you all posted were a BIG help too!!

Your debates were well worth the passion you spent on them -- take my word for it!

 

Just dialed back VTF from 2.2 to 2.0 and the top end is ever so slightly brighter and somewhat more free sounding.

I have also disengaged the spring in the VTF during this reset of the weight. I had it that way before and decided to see if there was a benefit now. Hard to tell if there is a difference from that since I ALSO decreased the VTF.

I any case, things are sounding awesome and I'm a real happy camper. My vinyl rig is finally kicking the living crap out of my CD player!

BTW - LZII was real nice. Now playing -- Heart's "Dreamboat Annie" and it is sounding pretty awesome!

 

That's great emkay! Sounds like you are hearing similar improvements to what I experienced. Did you use a Baerwald protractor to set up? I've got my VTF set at 2.0 too. And I wasn't able to tell the difference in sound between engaging the VTF dial or disengaging and going with the weight only. But I needed to adjust with a gauge to get it right in either case.

I had the same experience with how quiet previously loud records were. The surface noise is reduced and the better tracking eliminates all the sibilance of the Rega cartridge. Also, the way the midrange just expanded, like it was stretched out with way more room for details, texture, and subtleties to live in that range.

Anyways, glad to hear you are happy with it. Also glad if this thread (despite its strange path) was of any help to you. Don't forget to update your profile!

 

So, uh, does anyone want to loan me their 10x5 so I can check it out too? Seriously, I'm glad this cartridge is working out so well for everyone.

Emkay, how does it handle the DSOTM track Money? Any sibilance on that one? Are you are able to post some clips? This is all some sort of a conspiracy to get me to spend more $$$.

 

As I said, DSOTM was the first LP I played (after the HiFi News setup record ) and I played Eclipse which was always a problem for me. The Dynavector owned it -- it is completely under control.

Obviously, knowing how good it would sound I did get around to playing the whole thing. The section I'd always had a problem with in Money was the guitar solo and parts of the section that followed it. Happily, as is the case with Eclipse the Dynavector 10x5 is tracking very well during money and the sibilance is gone.

But beware... portions of DSOTM ARE sibilant - they sound that way on the SACD too!! That stuff is still there, but the screechy out of control tracking errors have completely disappeared.

Now, I'm in a strange phase of record playing. I've been chasing down every LP from my shelves that were a problem with the Elys2. The Beatles UK Stereo " A Hard Day's Night" LP for example had a couple of tough spots - so I guess I'll pull that down sometime tonight.

Some of Ian's comments are spot on as far as the midrange is concerned. And there is WAY more detail with the schmutz out of the way.

Here's a confession...

Played the Pro-Use Abbey Road last night, and during Sun King I realized I've been mis-hearing Lennon's gibberish vocals for the past 30 years. No kidding. Not that the music is enhanced by an extra syllable of nonsense, but it makes a nice benchmark for appreciating how much of your favorite music you've NOT been hearing. That actually sort of blew me away.

ProTools is down at the moment, but as soon as that is sorted out I'd be happy to post a sample from Money (perhaps on Friday).

 

Thanks for the extra info and I'm looking forward to the clips.

 

Ian - thanks for you helpful contributions and advice on this thread and others.

I actually used the protractor included in the Hi-Fi News Test LP -- it is one marked for 9 inch arms. Before I even dropped the stylus on the protractor I extended the cartridge all the way to the end of the tonearm (like in the pictures on this thread).

Here's the funny part...

Serendipity -- the stylus was perfectly in line for the 2 protractor grids!! I didn't have to adjust ANYTHING!

I was sort of dumbstruck at my luck, but I put on the test record and adjusted my bias. Then I popped on DSOTM and everything was beautiful.

What struck me immediately is how much better this cart is than the Elys -- they're not even in the same class. Not only does the Dynavector sound better, but it seems to have a much wider tolerance or margin for error than the Rega cart and I did not expect that. I figured that, being a higher-end cart it would be tweakier but it strikes me that it's excellent performance is pretty automatic. Either that, or I am just incredibly lucky.

Again - thanks to all who offered great tips on this thread.

Now how do I "denude" this puppy????

 

NOW you're talkin'.

Please read my highly cautionary previous posts, but again, I am not sure it's difficult at all.

Got a tiny screwdriver?