Led Zeppelin Remasters

If this was the case - using very little EQ and compression - wouldn't this make his job pretty easy. Just do a little analog to digital conversion and keep things flat. I have a feeling there's a little more going on than that.

 

Why do you think that the master is missing?

People point to this a lot and I haven't seen any proof of it....Is there a link for this where it is written?

Thanx in advance...

 

There is common knowledge of this, I think Steve and a few others here may know more about it. I have never seen this written, either. It's supposedly missing or damaged enough to where it's unplayable, from what I can recall... A bad batch of old BASF tape stock, maybe?

 

You might want to look up high-end DAC designer Dan Lavry's white paper on that particular matter.

It used to be here , but the link seems now to be broken:

http://www.lavryengineering.com/documents/Sampling_Theory.pdf

 

Please compare the intro to "The Rain Song", original CD vs remaster. On the remaster, the stereo image is narrowed, the sound is unnaturally veiled and processed. I can't imagine that the remaster used the same tape as the orginal CD for that song.

On the other hand, the original LZ IV CD has many small drop-outs that are absent on the remaster, so I would guess that the remaster used a better tape. However, some fades are longer on the old CD, and I generally like Barry Diament's mastering style better.

Some songs on LZ II sound virtually identical on both CD versions, so I doubt that they used different tapes.

 

Led Zeppelin II

I just found a used copy of the Diament mastering today; I also have the remastered version (Page/Marino), dated 1994. Can't decide which is nastier sounding (in both senses of the term!); the 1994 is more forward in the mids, and perhaps a bit more "detailed". It sounds like the tapes used for mastering were driven into the red; perhaps from the copy master sent to the U.S. to manufacture the Atlantic version of LZ II in '69? I don't recall my vinyl copy from 1970 sounding that way.

Is there a CD version of II (maybe from elsewhere in the world) mastered from first-generation tapes (or just not so hotly-dubbed) tapes?

Cheers
Bruce

 

I agree, same for the first LP. Some songs sound exactly the same while others have some obvious EQ differences. For the tracks that sound different I generally prefer the remasters (for the first 2 LP's) as the added midrange just suits the material better.

 

As far as I know, the Led Zeppelin albums were mastered exactly twice for CD: The 1980s CDs (mastered by Barry Diament), and the Jimmy Page/George Marino remasters.

 

***sigh***

Time to buy a Rega P3 and start looking for a clean vinyl copy of the mighty Led Zeppelin II...

Cheers
Bruce

 

No sorry to say, this is one of those situations where any of the three desirable vinyl issues (US RL, UK Plum, or MFSL) of this title will smoke any CD issue of this material now and sadly forever.

 

I have a non-RL early US pressing of II, and it smokes the CD. I'd sure love to hear the RL cut.

 

In the meantime, keep an eye out for the Canadian pressing. A pretty rough way of describing its 'punch' here, but if the RL is a 10, and the standard US is 1, the Canadian is an easy 7.

 

I don't know about the masters, but I recall reading in 2003 Jimmy Page interview that, during the search for material to make up the DVD and HTWWW releases, they found all the multitrack recordings for all the studio releases.

There was a statement recently by someone on a Zeppelin forum who claimed that Atlantic has been quietly re-digitizing all the Zeppelin masters for an upcoming SACD re-release.

Finally, I've also just read that Rhino is working on a 30th anniversary edition of The Song Remains the Same.

Of course, until there are actual announcements, these all amount to speculation (other than Page's comments about finding the multitracks).

 

Since Warner Music Group is not a SACD releasing company but into the DVD-A format, that comment/statement would come across as particular hogwash.

 

Good point. I'd prefer DVD-A myself anyway. Still, Page has expressed a lot of interest in 5.1 so some sort of re-release from the original multitracks would make sense.

Certainly after seeing all those flattened, missing peaks when I ripped some tracks from the Marino remasters, I hope something is done.

 

That "driven into the red" sound you hear on Zep II is a characteristic of tape saturation on the original recording, probably originating from the original multitracks.

 

For what it's worth, here are my guesses on Luke's mp3's:

Good Times: Original/Remaster
You Shook Me: Re/Or
WLL: O/R
What is...: R/O
Lemon: O/R
Thank You: R/O

So, what are they, really?

L.

 

Good Times, Bad Times - original, remaster

You Shook Me - remaster, original

Whole Lotta Love - original, remaster

What Is And What Should Never Be - remaster, original

The Lemon Song - original, remaster

Thank You - remaster, original

 

Well, that's gratifying! I preferred the originals for most, but not on "You Shook Me" and WIAWSNB. For those it was close, but I think the remaster edged the other out.

L.

 

I just listened to Luke's soundclips, & definitely prefer the originals myself.

Coincidentally, I just picked up an original CD pressing of "Physical Grafitti" tonight, completing my collection of original Zep CD's.

I guess it's time to move on to the next artist as far as replacing my remasters with the original CD's now!

 

I don't like very much the originals and there's a lot of room for improvement but I can't simply listen to the remasters , they have too much top end and are agressively EQ's, they tend to cause fatigue ........ it'd be great if we could get AF gold versions or SACD of these titles

 

It's not so much top end that has been boosted in the LZ remasters, as midrange. Also, EQ is not always the only thing changed (nor is it necessarily changed 'aggessively' depending on how you define aggressive). For one thing sometimes channels are switched in the two versions. This was the case for LZ I for example. And channel levels are also changed sometimes. On 'Communication Breakdown', Barry Diaments mastering there's a 2 dB difference in average level, between left and right channels. On the Marino remaster that difference has been eliminated...the left and right channels are at about the same average level.

Here's what the difference graph looks like, using the Diament CD as a reference. The switched channels have been accounted for, and the *overall* track levels have been matched by replaygain (so that the tracks sound about equally loud when played A/B -- this required lowering the remaster's level by ~ 2dB), prior to taking the measurements of the .wav files with Audition. In such a graph, a simple overall level boost (say, +1 dB) of a channel, compared to its counterpart on the reference CD, would show as a straight line (at +1 in this example). When frequencies have been selectively changed (i.e., EQ has been applied), the shape of the line gets more complicated. Communication Breakdown shows three bumps centered at 200, 850 and 2300 Hz respectively, and then a gradual treble *cut* from about 5 k onwards, in the remaster compared to the original CD. There's also a slight decrease in low bass (centered at 50 Hz) in the newer one compared to old. (All of this is easier to see in the right channel trace, whereas the left channel also shows the effect of the L/R channel level difference in the original CD -- the shape is basically the same as for right, but the whole curve is shifted down a dB or so). Note that the EQ-related differences between new and old version in the critical midrange are never more than a dB or so..yet you can hear how they make a difference.