another WWYD: KAB-modded SL1200 or Marantz TT-15S1? (Or neither?)

First, let me point out that my current turntable is a "borrowed" SL1200 (stock). I don't own the table - I have it on extended loan from a family member and can basically use it as long as I like. However, I do own the cart - a KAB "custom" Ortofon ProS40, which I purchased new about a year ago.

Overall, I've enjoyed the 1200/Ortofon setup, but I would like to go further with vinyl and am feeling the urge to upgrade. Since the 1200 I currently have is not actually mine, I can't mod it (owner is a DJ and asked me to keep it stock). If it were mine, I almost certainly would begin modding with a KAB fluid damper, arm rewire, etc.

So, obviously, I need to get a table of my own. I'm thinking of a budget around $1,000. New or used.

I quite like the 1200 as-is but am very curious how the various KAB mods would improve it. A fully-modded KAB 1200 (without the external PS) is about $1k. And I already own a nice cart for it (the ProS40).

However, I have the opportunity to buy a brand-new Marantz TT-15S1 for a ridiculously low price (nearly half retail). This table is not local, however, so I can't audition it in person.

I've researched the Marantz, and I am very curious about the Virtuoso wood cart, which seems to be it's major selling point. For the money, this table seems to be a better value than a KAB-modded 1200, but I'm no expert in this area and have never heard a Clearaudio Emotion or similar table, nor a higher-end cart like the Virtuoso.

Note also that I do not currently own a decent phono stage (recommendations?). And the rest of my system is quite humble (see my profile). I'm mostly into classic rock and jazz, and I primarily listen on headphones. My vinyl collection only contains a couple dozen titles, but it is growing....

So, what would you do? 1200? Marantz? Neither? Reasons?

(Also, please let's not have a "1200 is/not worthy" discussion - I've lived with it for over a year and have gotten plenty of enjoyment from it already.)

 

If I had to do it all over again, I'd buy the KAB SL-1200MK2SE with the tonearm damper, arm rewire, and outboard power socket for $813. Then I'd replace the stock feet with KAB Sonic Domes for $29. Plug in your Ortofon ProS/40 and you'd have a great setup. Down the road, add the external power supply. With the outboard power socket already installed there'd be no need to send the unit back out to be modified.

I have the 1210MK5 and there's really no audio-related need to pay the extra money for it. And if you're going to have the arm rewired with Cardas wire, the same goes for the M5G. For what's it worth, a KAB'd 1200 vs. a stock one is not much of a contest. To my ears, the mods make a big improvement.

Then again, I've never heard the Marantz. That might be a killer turntable. Is it new or used? Return policy?

 

Agreed. Get the '1200 from KAB with all the mods you can't do yourself, and then add the mods you can do later on. Toss the cart you already have on it and be happy.

 

Not sure you really need any of the KAB mods for the SL-1200mk2.

I used to think I needed the tonearm fluid damper until I upgraded my cartridge and found that using the fluid damper with that cart lead to (to my ears) a dead/OVERDAMPED sound. It did bring the mids forward a bit (too much to my ears) but too much transient information on cymbals and other instruments was lost.

I also probably have tin ears but really don't hear much benefit to upgrading things like power supply, wiring, etc. That's just me - not trying to start an argument - probably there are differences but there are many other things in most peoples' systems that are "rate limiting" in terms of sound quality that need to be addressed long before tonearm wiring.

So my advice is put your money into getting as great a cartridge as you can onto the stock SL-1200mk2 first - making sure of course it's a good match (in terms of compliance) for the Technics moderate mass (12 g) tonearm. That's where the rubber meets the road, so to speak - your cartridge is a HUGE contributor to the quality of your vinyl playback. I'm getting fantastic results so far with a Dynavector 17D3, but also had very nice results with an AT150MLX before that which is much cheaper. With the AT150MLX tonearm fluid damping was a necessity, I did find, but with the Dynavector, not at all -its design really seems to minimize unwanted resonances negating the benefits of such damping.

 

One other thought on the Marantz: if it will have to be shipped to you, this is a major red flag. The attrition rate for turntables via our normal shipping firms is quite high. Usually, though, poor packing on the sender's end is a big part of the problem. An original box with all the proper inserts lowers - but doen't eliminate - the risk.

Second sticking with the SL1200. Few contemporary TT's today enjoy the low-cost upgrade path that KAB offers for the SL1200.

Cheers,

David

 

Agreed on the "rate limiting" components as well as the tonearm damper being a case-by-case basis. But, in general, with cartridges people typically put on an SL-1200 (say, less than $400) it's usually reported back as a very nice improvement.

With regard to the tonearm wiring, what I've found is that the KAB method of securing the wire inside the turntable is superior to the stock method. In addition, the Cardas wire is more flexible. One theory is that the tonearm rewire results in better sound largely due to less vibration being transmitted back up through the cable itself. Plus, with the rewire you can use any cables you want from the table to preamp in order to fine-tune capacitance.

 

Yes I do think having the ability to plug/unplug the leads from the turntable with the KAB mods would be very nice - for the reason you mention and (related to that) being able to go with less than 3 feet of interconnect.

 

Thanks for the responses. So, the score is currently 4-0 in favor of the SL-1200! Interesting.

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised. Not that I feel there is anything "wrong" with the 1200, but I figured that the Marantz would be perceived as a better value - given that it includes an $800 Virtuoso cart and is a near-clone of the Clearaudio Emotion with a Satisfy tonearm.

So, do you guys feel the overall sound-quality of modded 1200 (with my ProS40 cart) would be simply superior to the Marantz/Clearaudio?

As I said before, I've been quite happy with the stock 1200 - I just wasn't sure if modding it out would get me a table that compares favorably with the $1,500 table crowd. I always assumed the Clearaudio Emotion was similar in design to the much-praised VPI Scout. And I know the Virtuoso cart is very highly regarded. As I've never heard either a fully-modded 1200 or an Emotion/Scout/etc., I must say I'm pleasantly surprised by the advice so far!

Thanks again. At this point I'm certainly leaning towards the 1200....

 

What's the total cost for the Marantz and Virtuoso package? It does seem rather tempting.

 

$1,100. Brand-new, never assembled, in original box. Includes a Gingko dust cover.

 

My SL-1200MK2 is stock.

I would change the interconnect first.

I think I would keep it soldered inside instead of RCA's.

I am not sure which one yet.

Thanks

 

The Marantz is a heck of deal, I think I would go for that if you have assurances from the seller he will back the product. I have the Virtuoso Wood cart and it is a very good cartridge (takes a while to break in). I see accessories4less has this tt for 1,049.00.

I would also consider used at this price. Check out audiogon.

 

How long would you say it takes for the Virtuoso to break-in? Also, how well does this cart track used/worn records? Is it overly revealing of sub-quality vinyl?

 

Somewhere around 20 hours and it starts to smooth out. I have had no tracking issues even with sub-quality vinyl.

 

Hi, I think Marantz should be a no brainer! I never heard Technics and
can't comment on it. I think it (Marantz) could be your ticket to audio bliss, but
you need address phono amplifier issue to get the best resolution from
that wonderful Virtuoso cart. My 0.02