Since I have never had a master tape in my hands, I have to ask the more knowledgable ones. How common was Dolby on master tapes in 1970 in the UK? And are there different variants? How dramatic would the difference be if a Dolby recording was played back without Dolby? How dramatic would the difference be if a non-Dolby recording was played back with Dolby? The thing is, there are three albums recorded in the UK in 1970 that have CD problems supposedly related to Dolby. Led Zeppelin III: It was argued that the remastered CD was erroneously played back without Dolby. (It is much brighter and also a bit hissier than the older CD). Elton John (s/t): It was argued that the West German DJM CD was erroneously played back with Dolby. (The sound is indeed dark and a bit booming with very little hiss. Reportedly, the UK DJM and the UK Polydor CD sounds very different.) Genesis Trespass: It was argued both ways with regard to the MCA and the Virgin/Charisma CD. Any thoughts?
Lou Reed's first solo album Lou Reed was a non-Dolby encoded recording played back with Dolby during the LP mastering stage. In Lou's box set, he says that upon listening to the finished album it didn't sound right-too boomy. It was not until compiling the box set that the reason for the strange sound was discovered.
How common was Dolby on master tapes in 1970 in the UK? About 50%. And are there different variants? Not really, Dolby 301 units or 331 units. Mostly the same; Dolby A. How dramatic would the difference be if a Dolby recording was played back without Dolby? Very dramatic. It would sound like sheet without proper Dolby A playback; thin and compressed to heck. How dramatic would the difference be if a non-Dolby recording was played back with Dolby? It would sound terrible; muffled.
Is it also fair to say the "muffling" isn't a constant - it would rapidly decrease/increase according to what's actually on the tape?
The more common problem was not using proper calibration. Each reel should/must have had a calibration tone and the box marked with proper information. On playback, the levels had to be properly set! Without this truly accurate reproduction was all but impossible. Reels without information on the box and calibration tones recorded on the reel had to be guess work. Richard.
A final bump for this poor thread...I guess from Steve's description, we can rule out that any CD versions of Trespass, Elton John and Led Zeppelin III were mastered with incorrect Dolby settings. The WG DJM Elton John is not that muffled, and LZ III is not that bright. Is there any known instance where a CD used a tape with incorrect Dolby settings?
Steve would know, but i'd say it wasn't as common as the U.S.. Also, the trend in the 70s was to slow down the tape speed to 15 i.p.s. to save tape. Furthermore, Eddie Kramer liked to cut masters at 15 i.p.s. because of the bass bump. Most engineers used Dolby A at 15 i.p.s.. but there was no hard and fast rule. If one ran a master 2-track at 30 i.p.s., there was usually no Dolby used. No need for it. For pro use in the studio back then? No. It was Dolby A. Now, since 1986, it's been Dolby SR. Pretty much. Pretty much. I think Steve would tell, you that a Dolby tape played back without the Dolby would be pretty unlistenable, and vice versa. I think what may have really been the issue here is that a tape copy was used on the hissier CD, but I also do not have any proof. Forum member Zal could tell you more, as he worked at Atlantic in the 80s. Harry Weinger claims that the Stevie Wonder tapes were not Dolby but played back with Dolby before he remastered them.
Heh! I was so tired this morning that I didn't see that Steve had already posted! Oh well, I was on target with what he would reply.
As it is me that has been vocal about Trespass and Led Zeppelin III ... I should clarify what I have said re: Trespass. On the MCA (the version preferred by many here), I suggested that Dolby was maybe incorrectly aligned. Not necessarily played back without it altogether - just misaligned. For those who didn't see my posts in the relevant threads: on quiet passages, I can hear what sounds like (to me anyway) compression in the upper mid range. Agreed, the original LP sounds that way too... but surely it's not impossible that every flat copy tape that went out was done from incorrect playback (read: Beggars Banquet). I've not heard the master tape - that goes without saying. But, the MCA has what sounds like a select band of frequencies compressed. How did that happen in 1970? What equipment was availalbe to achieve that effect? Now, the Virgin/Charisma sure sounds muffled on the first song, but this seems to apply to just the vocals. All the other songs sound ok, "Dusk" in particular is stunning. Many disagree with me after hearing the MCA. It's just not for me though, so I'll stay in the minority . To me, that doesn't rule out that Dolby is at least malfunctioning. Obviously, a straight playback of the tape would be muffled or bright if Dolby was the culprit... but there is EQ to consider in addition to this. I don't think the LZIII remaster is bright as such - my problem is with how reverbs get brighter with time, instead of decaying (Immigrant Song), and how kick drums reverberate like leaky foot pumps (Since I've Been Loving You). It's very similar to recording it to cassette with Dolby B, playing it back without, then turning the treble down on your amp. The original CD, for better or worse, sounds nothing like this. The remasters of II and IV, also sound nothing like this. So, again, what equipment caused this to happen? Or was it just a mastering decision for the remaster of that one title? If it was, it was a stange thing to do. Does anyone else hear stuff like this?
The Apocalypse Now tapes were Telefunken encoded tapes. DBX was big for a short while. Any of these, and Dolby as well, would sound plain bad if not decoded. If you guys are so picky with nuance of mastering eq and compression, you'd freek at a non-decoded tape, no matter what type of noise reduction was used.
Oh, by the way, if different studios were used and tapes recorded at differing levels, and Dolby, or other noise reductions were used, then playback for each each would have to be calibrated separately, with differing sets of reference tones. If they were not, and only one set was used for a compilation of such stated tunes/recodings/encodings , the results would be skewed, at least on the songs not set/referenced correctly. This does happen....but we were pretty careful about this at Atlantic Studios (I'm happy to say).
Here's some actual audio for ya. Clips from two David Bowie songs, two clips of each song from one source, two from another, in no particular order. Needless to say, one source I quite like, the other I really can't stand - but I'll let you be the judge . For the discrepencies here, I'm blaming "misuse" (a catch all phrase for simplicity's sake) of encode/decode type noise reduction (might not be Dolby - could be dbx - who knows). If you don't normally listen for this kind of stuff on your CD's, you might be more interested after hearing these... Golden Years A Golden Years B Wild Is The Wind A Wild Is The Wind B
Golden Years B an Wild Is The Wind A sound weird, with a lot of additonal echo. Something is wrong with these. Golden Years A sounds better than any of my sources for this song, including the German RCA Changesonebowie and the German RCA Station To Station...what source is it? Great sound. Wild Is The Wind B sounds like my German RCA Station To Station CD. Quite good, but not much top end.
Golden Years B and Wild Is The Wind A sound like Dolby B cassette recordings played back without Dolby. That's my guess.
These are rips from CDs. That's the point - this has occured with stuff you could actually buy from the racks... Not much fun if it's your money
The reason I said they sounded like cassette recordings is I've been transferring some cassettes with Dolby B encoding to CD. When I play them back with Dolby engaged they sound a bit muffled, but without Dolby, they are too bright and have that echoey sound -- just like on your two examples. I'll be interested to hear which CDs those clips are from -- so I can save my money. Thanks Phil.
Heh ... I've found a use for spoilers. Want to know what the sources are? Spoiler Golden Years A: The Singles Collection, EMI, UK 1993 Golden Years B: Station To Station, RCA Made in Japan, US edition Wild Is The Wind A: Station To Station, RCA Made in Japan, US edition Wild Is The Wind B: The Singles Collection, EMI, UK 1993
From what I've heard, I prefer well recorded pre-Dolby recordings. Maybe if I was aware of the best Dolby encoded recordings I would not think this, but Dolby to me seems to thwart some juice out of a record. It's like an encoded baffle.
