There has been a lot of talk about YES on vinyl here lately so I though it might be a good idea to put all of our thoughts into one thread. Let's walk through every album and post the deadwax info for what we have. If you care to compare your various pressings and let us know which you prefer, that is cool too. Also, for those that do needle drops, feel free to post samples of what you have. We will go in order from first to most recent. When we did this for the Rush vinyl pressings thread, we ended up discussing each album for two or three days apiece. A thread of this magnitude will take a month or two to get through but will be well worth it in the end. Before we get to the albums, let's talk about the Atlantic label variations. This will help new comers identify the vintage of their YES albums. I'll post what I know in a follow up post and feel free to join in! Thanks all.
As far as I can tell, Atlantic in the US switched to the Red/Green label design in 1968. At this time the address printed on the rim of the label read: Manufactured by Atlantic Recording Corp., 1841 Broadway, New York, N.Y. In late 1973 the address at the bottom was changed to read: Manufactured by Atlantic Recording Corp., 75 Rockefeller Plaza, N.Y., N.Y. Sometime in 1975, the address was changed again to read: Manufactured by Atlantic Recording Corp. 75 Rockefeller Plaza, N.Y. N.Y. A Warner Communications Company There was also a Warner's logo placed in between N.Y. N.Y. and A Warner Also, in 1977 most of the YES catalog (The YES Album, Fragile, Close To The Edge, Yesterdays, and Relayer) was renumbered into the 19000 series. At some point in the late 70s or early 80s, YES albums started to be put in the "Atlantic, Atco, Cotillion and Custom Labels" sleeve. I think this was the beginning of the Super Savers era, but I'm not completely sure. If anyone has details, please let us know. Can someone fill us in on the UK label variations?
The first four YES records (YES, Time and a Word, The Yes Album and Fragile) were first issued in the UK with "Plum and Orange" Atlantic labels. These records were pressed by Polydor Records Ltd. There are at least two variations of this label. The first reads "Campbell Connelly & Co", the second "Rondor Music/Yessongs". These words are located below the track listing on both sides of the vinyl. On Plum versions of the first two Yes records, I have only seen the CC&Co labels. Maybe someone can verify if S/T or TAAW ever had Plum Rondor labels. I have owned copies of The Yes Album with either label variation, and Fragile I have only seen with the Rondor Label. Campbell Connelly & Co Rondor Music/Yessongs
YES s/t Here's what I have for the first album: YES s/t UK Red/Plum 588190 Side One: 1, 3, 4. Yessongs. 2. Essex Music 588190 A//1 11 112 Side Two: 1, 3, 4. Yessongs. 2. Northern Songs 588190 B//1 1 1 11 YES s/t UK Red/Green K 40034 Side One K 40034 A 588190 A//1 11 Side Two K 40034 B 588190 B//1 1 1 No mention of Rondor on either. Also, no WB on the Red/Green. I think the WB was added later in the UK as well as in the US. Anyone have any info on this? Also, looks like they used the same stampers for both. 588190 A//1 and 588190 B//1 are on both copies. YES s/t White Label Promo SD 8243 1841 Broadway Side One: ST-A-691679 PR ST - A - 691679 - A LW W AT Side Two: ST-A-691680 PR ST - A - 681680 - A LW W AT I'm assuming that this one is from 1969 and has the original stampers. No mastering credits. YES s/t US Red/Green SD 8243 1841 Broadway Side One: ST-A-691679 PR ST - A - 691679 - A LW W AT Side Two: ST-A-691680 PR ST - A - 681680 - A LW W AT Sealed copy from Ebay. Of course I had to open it. Exact same stampers as WLP. Has The YES Album on inner sleeve. 1971 vintage? No mastering credits. YES s/t US Red/Green SD 8243 1841 Broadway Side One: ST-A-691679CTH ST A691679-2A 1 CTH T B1 Side Two: ST-A-691680CTH ST A691680-2A 2 CTH T B1 Deadwax info is machine stamped on this one. No mastering credits. YES s/t US Red/Green SD 8243 1841 Broadway Side One: ST-A-691679 PR st-A-691679B AT/GP PR Side Two: ST-A-691680 PR st-A-691680-B AT/GP PR Close To The Edge and Yessongs on sleeve. Late 1972 / early 1973? This is the earliest George Piros cut I have. Anyone have an earlier one? YES s/t US Red/Green SD 8243 75 Rockefeller (no WB) Side One: ST-A-691679RI st-A-691679BBB- -1 AT/GP PR Side Two: ST-A-691680RI st-A-691680BBB- -1 AT/GP PR Same cut as above; just a little later. 1973 - 1975. YES s/t US Red/Green SD 8243 75 Rockefeller WB Side One: ST-A-691679-SP ST-A-691679-C 1-3 ATLANTIC STUDIOS D.K. SRC Side Two: ST-A-691680-SP st-A-691680-B AT/GP 0-1 PR (SP) Dennis King Side 1, George Piros Side 2. Late 70s / early 80s pressing? I'll try to post samples later. OK folks, what do you have?
As promised, here are some samples: https://www.yousendit.com/transfer....929571&email=de5db780459e49d3170616781e378fd3 There are 7 45 second snippets of I See You wrapped in one zip file. FLAC format. You should be able to tell the pressing by the name of the flac file. Any comments welcome...
Here's Beyond and Before: https://www.yousendit.com/transfer....941417&email=08179b968db3fac8bb803c437097e764 EDIT: This one only has 5 samples in it. The ones with the same masterings were too similar to justify posting.
Fab information, Bobby! Thanks for the matrix info. Here's a recent thread discussing the first Yes record. http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=190296 Hey, do you or anyone else know how to decipher the Polydor stamper codes? (all the 1 1 1 2 numbers, etc. after the matrix numbers.) I am assuming that the higher numbers denote a later mother or stamper.
Thanks for the link. I remember reading that one recently and did a search but could not find it. RE: Polydor - I have no idea what those other numbers mean. If someone else can shed some light, that would be great.
Holy heck. Sorry I will have little to contribute to this thread, but that's an impressive collection of copies of the first album you have, saundr00. I hope this thread continues. Unfortunately I don't have either of the first two albums on vinyl yet, but I can talk a bit about some of the others down the road.
As I wrote on the other thread mentioned here this is the best sounding version of this album I have heard. The UK red/plum and US WLP don't sound nearly as good IMHO.
Thank you very much for posting these samples. Very educational. My favorite is the UKRedGreen. I think the use of a better source shines through. Also this sample sounds more natural to me with the best holography. The GP mastering seems to have a better bottom end. To me it sounds like this is achieved by narrowing the stereo perspective (almost mono). The UKRedGreen have a wider stereo perspective and more air to it (bigger soundstage). Frankly I find the GP to be all over the place. Not my cup of tea. Tonality vice I also like the SRC-DK. This is my second favorite. But this also have a slightly narrowed stereo perspective and also I can hear some tape noise (higher generation source) in the background. The WLP, 1841Broadway-LW and the 1841Broadway-CTH sounds like they have a bump in the heights at around 13k giving the recording some artificial air. (I guess they are mastered from the same source.) Not my taste.
The heights on some of those US pressings (The GP being the worst offender) are tweaked beyond belief. Ouch.
Yeah. It makes you wonder whether the Americans boosted the treble or if they attenuated it in the UK. Beyond and Before is the brightest YES song I've ever heard though. I actually believe that you can't go wrong with any of these. None are so bad that you will want to run and take it off of the turntable (wait til we get to Time and a Word for that). For those who do not know, the AT in the deadwax means that it was cut at Atlantic. CTH means it was cut at Columbia Terre Haute, IN. Atlantic normally would cut their own records but sometimes would farm work out to meet demand. Hard to imagine there was demand for the 1st one! Maybe they were just too busy with other albums. Who knows... There are other clues to let you know where it was pressed. We can get into that if anyone wants.
One other quick thing. I didn't post the UK Red/Plum because it sounds just like the Red/Green. They have the same stampers.
Could you mean they were both cut from the same master lacquer (not stamper), hence the identical matrix? Depending on the manufacturing process, I have been told that a stamper will only make about 300-500 records before wearing out. Stampers are made from a mother, which is made from the master lacquer. Although I have not been able to compare the Red/Green UKs to the Plums of the first Yes album specifically, I am pretty sure they they were made by different pressing plants. Do the records appear different in ways other than the label? Are they the same thickness? Is the area around the label made the same way? On the Polydor "plums" the label area is usually flat, on the later "Kinney" (red and green) pressings the label area has an indentation. Experts feel free to correct my information...
They share the same matrix numbers, but the Red/Green has K40034A/B as well. I don't think they could have been made from the same lacquer because it is destroyed in the process of making the mothers. Maybe some old mothers were still around and they used them to create new stampers. Anyway, the sound is identical. RE: Kinney. Kinney is not mentioned on this copy. Inside it says "An Atlantic Record distributed by WEA Records Ltd. 1972. The label is indented. There is no WB on the label. My Red/Plum is not indented. But has sort of an indented ring around the spindle hole, about an inch out. If I had a digital camera, I'd post pictures.
I believe they actually scribe the mother with an additional letter for each stamper they pull from it so unless there is a difference in the number of last letters (the additional letters appear to be barely there being scratched onto metal.) they are from the same stamper. At least that is my understanding.
Well somehow they got the K40034A/B on there too and that part is not faint at all. I'm still gonna guess that both my Red/Plum and Red/Green come from the same "cut" of the record. EDIT: I've also seen some Rush records where the title was re-issued (the Archives set) under a different catalog number. I have some of these where the old matrix info is actually marked through and the new one etched in.
It's etched into the mother and transfers to the stamper. they are very shallow (due to being etched on metal as opposed to laquer I suspect) and can be hard to see sometimes. I believe they serve as a tally so as to determine the life of the mother.
Yes, that what I meant. The record was not remastered, and the later version was made from metal parts generated from the same master lacquer as the first version. I have seen the later Red Green Atlantic UK records referred to as "Kinney pressings" because the Kinney National Company oversaw manufacturing for UK Atlantic after Polydor. That's what the "K40034A" in the dead wax refers to. The new Red Green labels came in at the same time. from the Warner Brothers Records Story http://www.bsnpubs.com/warner/warnerstory.html "Corporately, as the 1960s came to a close, more changes took place. In 1969, the Kinney National Company purchased Warner Brothers/Reprise/Atlantic from Seven Arts. Kinney had started as a funeral parlor chain, but had moved into the entertainment field in 1967 by purchasing D.C. Comics, All- American Comics, and the Ashley Famous Talent Agency. In 1970, after purchasing Warner and Atlantic, Kinney also bought Elektra Records from Jac Holzman, putting Warner/Reprise, Elektra, and Atlantic all under the Kinney empire. In 1972, Kinney renamed itself Warner Communications, Inc., which included the giant WEA Distribution corporation (for "Warner/Elektra/Atlantic"). Warner Brothers Records had become part of a gigantic conglomerate, one of the biggest forces in the music industry." Same as the Led Zeppelin records I have during that transitional period.
Makes sense. Thanks for that. What I see in these is more like tick marks. 1 11, etc. They are very lite as you say. I've always wondered what these were.
